Le mie Interviste

• INTERVISTA - in doppia lingua - a Fabio Grego, USA
  
  "Milano? see it from above" (25 luglio 2005)

Devo innanzitutto precisare che Fabio è il figlio maggiore di mio fratello. Ma non è per "nepotismo" che ho scelto di intervistarlo. Ho deciso di avere con lui questo "colloquio" per la sua visione davvero internazionale della vita e del "mestiere": Fabio, infatti, nato a Montreal, ha trascorso in Canada i suoi primi 10 anni. Poi 5 anni a Milano, e 10 a Sao Paulo, Brasile. Si è successivamente trasferito a Chicago, dove vive e lavora da 25 anni. Attualmente è project manager per "healthcare projects" presso un celebre studio di architettura internazionale, con uffici anche a Chicago.

In questa intervista ho chiesto a Fabio un parere anche sul dibattito in corso a Milano - città che conosce molto bene - sul tema "grattacieli sì, grattacieli no".

Da molte migliaia di chilometri di distanza, spesso, molte cose si vedono con maggior chiarezza ... Ecco perchè ho riassunto l'opionione (che "prende" davvero tutta l'ultima domanda) addirittura nel titolo "See it from above" .

D. I tuoi studi e le principali esperienze di lavoro.
R. I have a 5-year degree in Architecture from Mackenzie University in Sao Paulo, Brazil, a Masters in Architecture from the University of Michigan and an MBA from the University of Illinois. I am a registered Architect in Brazil and the US. I worked on single family residences for 3 years in Brazil and then on institutional projects (schools and hospitals) in the office of Bertrand Goldberg and Associates, a few years as a project manager with a contractor and then as a project architect and project manager for 8 years at VOA Associates doing corporate interior and healthcare projects. I spent 2 years at the Department of Construction and Permits at the City of Chicago as the Manager of Regulatory Review, charged with changing and passing the new Chicago Building code for the city.

D. Hai sempre fatto l'architetto-manager, ma un architetto è pur sempre un architetto, anche se è anche manager. Qual'è la tua idea dell'architettura, oggi, qual'è il suo "senso"?
R. Architecture exists to fulfill a need. The question always is: what is the need? Is it basic shelter, or is it a response to an urban context, or is it a response to an aesthetic and the list goes on. A large burden is placed on architecture because it is so visible and it affects people’s lives, economy and agendas so profoundly. Architecture’s sense is to make sense out of all the demands that a project entails. That one can look at a building and say: yes it makes sense for that building to be there and to look like that. And yet another person can arrive to the same conclusion for another reason, and yet another person and yet another. Architecture’s sense is to provide an appropriate response to a set of variables.

D. Molto pragmatico: quale il rapporto, in particolare, con l'ambiente?
R. Architecture shapes the environment. Imagine any city without architecture. Architecture can destroy the environment. Architecture can and does impact the environment, polluting and creating heat islands and consuming energy in thoughtless ways or creating wonderfully pleasant sheltered environments. As far as design goes, architecture must be sensitive to the environment, no doubt about that. Examples of architecture that is thoughtful about the environment and architecture that is not thoughtful abound. Because architecture is also construction and construction is responsible for a large percentage of the waste that is created and dumped into landfills, architecture should and must be cognizant and aware of its impact on the environment also when it comes to the use of materials and how buildings are built. The need to be careful and respectful of the environment, green buildings, green architecture is very real and strongly supported in the architectural community. The difficulty is to implement environmentally sound concepts on projects when the bottom line dictates what design and materials will be used.

D. Edifici "per collettività" (penso alla Cattedrale di Brasilia, ma anche un albergo a sette stelle a Dubai): c'è una nuova simbologia?
R. Here in the US I believe that transparency is a current symbology. I see it very clearly for institutional buildings. The transparency of the bureaucratic or institutional process is reflected in the fact that these buildings are being designed to be more human in scale and feel, full of daylight, more comfortable for the user (now called a client) and inviting.

D. Cosa c'è, se c'è, di sbagliato, nell'architettura contemporanea?
R. I may be looking at the world of architecture with rose-colored glasses, but I do not see anything wrong in contemporary architecture. What I really see is a rather eclectic approach to problems, challenges and situations which bring out very interesting solutions. There are exceptions. However, I believe that today we are less attached to architectural/design dogmas than ever before and that is good. It allows the design and the architecture to focus on the issues at hand rather than on the effort to comply with some abstract or predetermined design rules or dogmas.

D. Che "peso" ha in USA la firma di un grande o noto architetto nel valore commerciale di un edificio?
R. The commercial value of a building is not really influenced by a "signature architect". Commercial buildings (either commissioned by private investors or by developers ) rely on the competence of the architect to be able to deliver a product which responds to the program, is appropriate to the site, and makes the building unique and attractive and responds well to all considerations. The ability of a building to meet the palate of the marketplace has more to do with the ability of the architect rather than his/her name or, as you are referring to, his/her "signature".

D. Hai dei "modelli" di architetti, chi ti ha influenzato di più?
R. When Architects are asked this question, the response is usually a list of the favorite: Frank Lloyd Wright, Richard Meier, and other well-known architects in the global community. I think the architects that have made the greatest impression on me have been those architects I have worked for, along with the lesser-known-to-the-world architects I have worked with. Among the architects I have worked for: Bertrand Goldberg and Vic Vikrey here in Chicago and Marcelo Fragelli and Jose Asbun Seleme in Sao Paulo. However, many teachings and words of wisdom that have shaped my views in architecture have come from real-life architects that I have worked with such as Ben Honda, Charles Dawe, Nic Luzietti, Tom Fromm, and many more. Each of them has said or shown me something about architecture that has shaped my thinking. To all of them I am thankful for having shared their experience and knowledge with me. Having said that, I can only imagine the thrill of being right next to FLW at the drafting board as he produced some of the most distinguished designs of modern times.

D. Che tipo di edifici Ti piace più progettare e realizzare?
R. Educational facilities, I find, are the sweetest buildings. They are sweet because one is designing for the young and the pursuit of knowledge. They are also sweet because educational facilities contain a number of design challenges because of the various and different spaces that they include: classrooms, administrative offices, auditorium, athletic facilities, labs, swimming pools, etc.

D. Quali materiali prediligi, e per che cosa?
R. Glass is an amazing material and in the past years has made some incredible technological improvements that allow for its use in many more ways than before. Glass is so adaptable and comes in so many varieties. For Chicago’s climate, glass is the material of choice for the exterior of a building. Wood is however the closest to the heart and the closest to us as human beings, in its life cycle. Wood is has all the moods. There is nothing like feeling wood with your hands. Granite and Marble are nature’s gift to us. We should always be judicious when we use these materials. We destroy mountains made of these stones and many times to use them in the wrong situations.

D. Cosa Ti piacerebbe progettare, tra le tipologie che non hai ancora fatto? Il famoso architetto Mario Botta, ad esempio, mi ha dichiarato che vorrebbe poter realizzare un Convento ...
R. Realistically, a lookout to watch the sunrise and the sunset.

D. Hai mai realizzato, da designer, oggetti di uso quotidiano?
R. No, not really. The closest I ever got was to design a light fixture, in college. I liked it. I thought it was a good design, but I was also painfully aware of how difficult it is to design such objects. The least deviation from the ideal curve or line can ruin an entire design. That exercise gave me a lot of respect for industrial designers and their work. Italians are masters at it.

D. Il Paese che è anche il Tuo, l'Italia, sembra attraversato - dopo anni di immobilismo - da una nuovo fervore immobiliare, cui si unisce un vero e proprio furore architettonico: si parla addiritttura di "nuovo Rinascimento". Ne arrivano gli echi, a Chicago, e come?
R. If it is happening, it may be happening in the real estate investment community. International developers are usually at the forefront of real estate booms. I cannot say I have herd anything in the architectural community about this here in Chicago.

D. In Italia stanno operando moltissimi architetti stranieri, da Foster a Liebeskind, da Tange Jr a Zaha Hadid. Stanno facendo di tutto: masterplan, nuovi city quarter, alberghi... Quali architetti italiani sono noti in USA?
R. Renzo Piano has definitely established a place for himself here in the US, for the museum work that he has completed and for other works. I cannot think of others and it may be because I do enjoy his work.

D. L'architetto sembra aver assunto, da noi, il ruolo di opinion maker, e non solo di opinion leader. Si organizzano dibatti, conferenze dedicate non solo ai temi dell'architettura, ma anche ad altro, e l'architetto è sempre più presente, sempre più invitato, sempre più intervistato. Che ne pensi di questo atteggiamento, che molti definiscono eccesso di "protagonismo", per uno che fa il Tuo mestiere? E' così anche in USA?
R. The architect as an "opinion maker"… That sounds quaint. I cannot refrain from smiling when I read that. Don’t forget that we have Hollywood here. Whoever the Tom Cruise of the moment is will be the opinion maker of the moment… I believe the saying is "O tempora, o mores".

D. Grattacieli o non grattacieli: è questo il dibattito, oggi, a Milano. E' noto che il Sindaco Gabriele Albertini ama lo sky-line di Manhattan, e vorrebbe una Milano con molti grattacieli (oltre a quelli già "programmati"). Qual' è il Tuo parere?
R. Knowing Milan quite well and how well the city is known around the world and is appreciated for its urban qualities I believe that the mayor of Milan should love Milan and not the Manhattan sky-line. Let me digress for a moment. In the past the City of Chicago pursued many urban and architectural models that were imposed on the urban fabric of the city. Urban Renewal in the 1960s and 1970s along with the vacating of entire city blocks to make way for gigantic structures ended up creating deep scars in many of the neighborhoods of the city and created difficult to surmount barriers between neighborhoods. The old mayor Daley’s effort to provide housing for the poor led to the use of high-rise structures that became more of a symbol of "containment" of the poor rather than housing. These structures became vertical ghettos and cut the city .In recent years Chicago has rediscovered an integral part of the city that is what actually makes it work, makes the city what it is: Chicago is made of neighborhoods. Great efforts have been made in recent years (Mayor Daley is to be commended for his work, his efforts and his love for the city) and continue to be made to nurture many neighborhoods back to life after years of neglect.

I truly believe that Albertini should look and listen to Milano because Milano is the city he loves. Milano, the scale and density of the city, the urban fabric, the texture, the history, its making, all those beautiful ingredients that make it the city that is known the world over will tell him what needs to be done.

My opinion? Listen to and look closely at your city. It will tell you what it needs, it will tell you what to do. Throwing into the city of Milano a bunch of skyscrapers is not an answer. Skyscrapers look really nice in NY. (Forgive me however for taking the opportunity to point out that the skyscrapers in Chicago are, architecturally speaking, much better.) Milano has greater problems to be solved. The solutions to those problems would benefit many more people rather than building a few skyscrapers. By the way, log on to Google Earth and zoom in on Milano. See it from above. Walk the streets of MIlano and look beyond the soot and the graffiti. Look at its rich urban texture. You want a skyline in addition to all the rich urban spaces of the city? View the Alps from Milano on a clear, pollution-free day. That’s a skyline! That’s a skyline that no one else has.